Sundar's meeting with Tim
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Google exec on Sundar Pichai’s meeting with Tim Cook
On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 12:05 PM Donald Harrison wrote:
Kent - let me know if you have any thoughts or advice on the matters discussed.
Very good conversation last night with Tim, Eddy, Peter. Meeting lasted almost 2 hours - good tone and conversation (becoming more open as it progressed). Peter, Eddy, and I participated for the first hour or so and then Tim and Sundar met privately. Two main topics - our slides and the political environment (and FB) - this was a somewhat sprawling discussion focusing on both companies’ experiences with DC. Sundar also discussed our respective approaches to privacy in the follow on session. To say they have issues with FB is an understatement - they view much of FB's work with the Definers as focused at them (not sure that is completely accurate but not an issue we felt the need to debate) and there was deep anger there. Tim’s overall message to Google was “I imagine us as being able to be deep deep partners; deeply connected where our services end and yours begin and sees no natural impediment to us doing more together. Knows there is a past but doesn’t feel encumbered by it and wants to figure out how we work more deeply together (and share information better - he stressed this a few times).” Very positive and I felt genuine on his part - but we can take this slowly and no regrets over how we have handled things to date (from Sundar).
In turn when discussing how to encourage search, Sundar spoke about the fact that this is what we do - people trust us to get this right and trust us with the content of what they are searching for - and weaved in them considering us building an app or other experience that people associate with us and connect to us (vs. flowing through siri/suggest). Tim listened but did not react to this specifically other than noting we had different strengths. Sundar also strongly stated that you send us queries and we do our best to answer these (and monetize) - always in good faith and because our incentives are aligned - please trust this.
Conversation focused on our slides repeating the messaging we've been through (over and over). It flowed down predictable channels of questioning but nothing deeply concerning (didn't press on YouTube beyond a few clarification questions; didn't focus on desktop other than a few questions - Peter tried to press at this a bit but Sundar stepped in to stop the line of questioning; Peter will likely pick these things up so I'm sure they won't go away - but Tim did not emphasize). Tim focused on iPad during this discussion a fair bit (as expected from Peter's notes) but I would describe the concerns as product related - he consumes content on the iPad a certain way and believed that should drive broad consumption patterns and lead to query growth not declines. He wanted our help in at least understanding iPad/Tablet experiences and how to make it better (feel this was more a query volume question, not a revenue question). Does safari underperform Chrome on iPad etc.?
Rough Notes below (I was largely presenting so accept they are rough) - I’ll think about takeways and action items working with Joan and team and we will regroup in 2019. Thanks everyone (particularly Chris and Mike) for the work in pulling together the excellent briefing materials for this.
notes :
- they want to understand query growth on iPad better (Tim request; and Sundar said we would look into this) - propensity issue that Google agreed to look into; why do people do the things they do on iPad
- challenge us (from Tim) - if we are doing things that don't make sense than please challenge us on them (it is how we (Apple) operate internally); some of this (focusing on our slides) doesn't make sense (re queries) so please tell us you think we are doing dumb things
- We are aligned, Sundar: we would love to see the iPhone numbers grow and will work in good faith to answer the queries you send us
- Tim: look at Mac vs. iPad. Is there something we can look at from Mac vs. Windows, and iPad vs. tablet. IPad is more like a desktop? Both revenue and queries, over time, per device.
- Windows is so big—and in developed world. Large installed base. So you may not see a demographic shift.
- Tim: Is the growth rate of searches on iPad slower than desktop growth rates. (Searches per device over time—iPad has been going down at a fairly steep level. Which intuitively doesn’t seem right.) Choose some other activity in addition to search—maybe people are using phones in place of tablets.
(Asked for Chrome/GSA data)
- Safari suggestions: We think this is a good opportunity to address—we found enough examples
- Our vision is that we work as if we are one company. There is reluctance on both parts about sharing things. It would be great to hurdle over that. We’ve been back in a good stead for awhile; build a Google app that really builds a great experience (Sundar). We could extend the term of the deal so you guys don’t worry about it. It would be an additive thing from a query experience; decide to put a Google Search App in and do it for 20 years together; People are used to engaging with our brand if they have an intent to search
- Apple is looking at having a search box (like Android) that is Google + local on device
- Apple is fixing default bookmarks already
- Precise location is most important for xxx near me, maps, and a very small number of requests. Otherwise coarse location is fine. But if user says they are ok with coarse location, would it be ok to never ask them again? (Long discussion on location)
- ITP is going well—teams are heading in the right direction, only issue is timing
- On search entry points—there are times when people may not feel comfortable going to a browser for things; Apple has Uber surf with swipe down—but to get to Google you have to click again. Maybe we (Apple) can work on this experience because your total queries per device still have room to grow.
- Apple: On Android, how much comes from the browser vs. the search box vs. other locations. (Sundar gave a general answer - expect more questions here)
- Can we test more, conduct A/B tests, and get results back from Google?
From: Jerry Dischler
Sent: 12/20/2018 8:54:29 PM
To: Donald Harrison
CC: Joan Braddi; Philipp Schindler; Kristen Gil; Carlos Kirjner; Chris Rhyu; Mike Roszak; Matthew Bye; Ruth Porat; Kent Walker
Subject: Re: Tim Briefing Feedback
Don, thanks for the great notes. This seems like a super positive step forward and can't wait for the workstreams/follow-ups.
One thing to flag that we'll need to address in the new year:
- Our ITP discussions are going well given the context of Apple's very different vision for user privacy and the web.
- What we intend to release in Chrome (tentative announcement in March) will be different and much more respectful of the web ecosystem.
- If we want a deep partnership with Apple it may make sense to “join forces” on the user privacy issue, potentially across web and apps.
==> Pros: This could be a useful forcing function for the partnership and signal to the market that our rivalry is in the past.
==> Cons: Our views are pretty far apart; we will each need to accept painful compromises.
Best,
-Jerry.
[This document is from Epic v. Google (2023).]
Apple presentation: "Competing on Privacy"
Subject: Competing on Privacy
From: Eddy Cue
To: Tim Cook
Cc: Phil Schiller
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 08:37:21 +0000
Here is the latest slides we have on privacy. Still a lot more work to do but good start. We can share this with Al on Fri. If we do, I can have Eric Albert and Jane Horvath present it as they did the work. Let me know if you would like to do that.
[This document is from U.S. v. Google (2023).]
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